Grips. Let's talk about 'em. submitted by db_inc to dbrand [link] [comments] If you've spent any amount of time on this subreddit, you've likely seen at least one post about a Grip case that has fallen apart. Most of you have seen several. We know this because we've seen every single one. We’d like to see less of them. Ideally, none. Over the past 18 months, we’ve been on an odyssey to fix the underlying problem. What follows is a chronicle of that journey. Our objectives in writing this post are three-fold. There will be a tl;dr version at the end of this post, summarizing each of the three:
PART ONEWhy Do Grips Fall Apart?Most phone cases are made out of a single material. The material itself varies from case to case, though the most common is Thermoplastic Polyurethane (TPU). The Grip case, as a point of comparison, is made of two different materials: an elastomer and a polycarbonate. The word elastomer is a combination of the words elastic and polymer. That's because it describes polymers that have elastic properties - like the one that forms the outer rim of your Grip case. The elastomer that we use is responsible for two critical properties of the Grip case: impact protection and grip. If you fell off of a rooftop, would you rather land on a hard plastic surface, or a rubber surface? If you value your life at all, you'd choose the rubber - its elastic properties would absorb much more force from the impact. Guess what rubber is? First one to answer "an elastomer" wins a prize! Next, imagine you’re a pervert, gently running your finger across every surface of a No. 2 Pencil. Which part of the pencil do you think would provide the most resistance to the tracing of your finger? If you guessed "the eraser," congratulations: you possess a basic understanding of coefficients of friction. Erasers are made of rubber. Rubber has a high coefficient of friction because of its elastic properties. The Grip case's elastomer isn't rubber - it's our own specially-formulated compound. It's still a useful comparison, as all elastomers share similar properties - provided they have the same degree of Shore Hardness. One person reading this is asking: “Shore Hardness?” The next section is their fault. A Beginner's Guide to Material Science The Shore Hardness scale gauges the hardness of various elastomers. It can be measured with a device called a durometer. You probably don't have one.
If you used an eraser with a high Shore Hardness, you'd find it wouldn't actually do much erasing. Now, what if you made a phone case out of an elastomer with a high Shore Hardness? It wouldn't offer much grip or impact protection. The Grip's outer rim is made from an elastomer with a low Shore Hardness. As a result, the material is grippy and impact-resistant, but much more malleable and thus more likely to deform. That's why we bond the elastomer to a polycarbonate skeleton. Polycarbonates don't require as much explanation as elastomers: they're a category of plastic. On your Grip case, the back plate is made of polycarbonate. The elastomer rim is bonded to the polycarbonate plate on all sides of the Grip, providing structural rigidity to the elastomer, fighting to keep it from deforming. At least, that's the idea. As we've all seen, it hasn't worked out that way. Bonding two distinct materials together is much more complicated than gluing them together. Instead, we rely on a thermal bonding process. Basically, that means we heat both of our polymers to a degree which would turn you from “rare” to “well done” in moments. This heat melts the polymers, which we then inject at a pressure which would turn you from “solid” to “paste” even faster. Once injected, these two materials get fused together along the seams. To further reinforce the bonds, we use a series of interlocking "teeth" to provide a greater surface area on which the bonding process can occur. Consider these teeth the mechanical bond, which exists to strengthen the thermal bond. Pictured: Bonding mechanic between the elastomer and polycarbonate. With that out of the way: why do Grips fall apart? The elastomer rim around the edge of the Grip case is naturally inclined to deform and stretch. The bonding mechanisms we described above are designed to keep that from happening, but it often isn’t strong enough. As soon as the bond fails at any point, it's only a matter of time until a total structural failure occurs. PART TWOHow Are We Stopping Grips From Falling Apart?Philosophically, there are two approaches to take:
We could follow all of these roads, find out exactly which factors are causing the bond to fail, then implement preventative measures to keep it from happening - but that would take a decade. We don't have that long. Much like you, we want this fixed yesterday. So, from the moment we received our first complaint about a Grip deforming around the buttons, we've been making structural, thermal, and mechanical improvements to the design and production process of the Grip case - some visible, some not. Every new phone release has brought a new iteration on the core Grip design, with each one reducing the failure rate, incrementally. We'll bring the receipts in the next chapter. For now, let's highlight the most noteworthy improvements. The Most Noteworthy Improvements The first signs of trouble were the buttons. Months before we'd received our first report of a Grip case de-bonding, we saw the first examples of buttons that had bent out of shape. Pictured: Button deformation. Why the buttons? Because you press down on them. The force from button actuation puts strain on the elastomer, causing displacement of the material in the surrounding area. Through a combination of time, repeated button actuations and the above-mentioned force, the case would permanently deform around the buttons. This concept is called the "compression set" of the elastomer - Google it. The solution to this problem was two-fold:
Pictured: Relief slits to improve button tactility and durability. Another early issue, pre-dating the first reports of total de-bonding, was a deformation of the elastomer along the bottom of the case - where the charging port and speakers are. Since we've covered the basics on how the interlock between the elastomer and the polycarbonate creates a bond, this is how the interlocking teeth along the top edge of the polycarbonate skeleton of the Grip used to look. Pictured: First-gen interlocking teeth on the top of the Grip. ...and here's the bottom of that very same Grip case. Pictured: First-gen interlocking teeth on the bottom of the Grip. Notice anything? Around the charging port, there is absolutely nothing keeping the elastomer in place. No teeth, no structural reinforcements... it's no coincidence that an overwhelming majority of early Grip deformations happened along the bottom. Since then, we’ve added a reinforced polycarbonate structure around the bottom of the Grip case. You'll see what that looks like in a bit. So, why didn't the launch portfolio of Grip cases have mechanical interlocks or a polycarbonate support structure along the bottom? The answer may or may not be complicated, depending on how much you know about plastic injection molding. We'll assume the worst and explain the concept of "undercut" to you with a ridiculous metaphor. The Ridiculous Metaphor Imagine you had a tube full of melted cheese. Next, imagine you emptied that entire tube into your mouth. Rather than swallowing the cheese, you decide to let it sit in your mouth and harden. Why are you doing this? We don't know. Let's just say you want a brick of cheese that's perfectly molded to the contours of your mouth - a very normal thing to want. So, your mouth is completely filled with cheese. It hardens. You reach into your mouth to remove the brick of cheese. As you're removing it, you encounter a problem: your teeth are in the way. This wasn't a problem when you were putting the cheese into your mouth, but that was because the cheese was melted and could flow around your teeth. Now that the cheese has hardened, this is no longer the case. In the world of plastic injection molding, this is an undercut. Our concern was that, by molding a structurally rigid piece of polycarbonate around the charging port and speaker holes, we'd find ourselves unable to remove the Grip Case from the mold once hardened. Imagine spending $30,000 on industrial tooling only to get a $30 phone case stuck inside of it. Once we saw Grip cases deforming along the bottom cutouts, we knew we'd need to find a way to remove the cheese from your mouth without breaking your teeth. To make a long story short: we did it. The cheese is out of your mouth, and you get to keep your teeth. Congratulations! Now, keep reading. On newer models of the Grip case, the result is a polycarbonate bridge extending around the bottom cutouts, adding both structural reinforcement and interlock mechanisms to promote mechanical bond, much like the ones which line the perimeter of the rest of the Grip case. Pictured: Newest-gen structural reinforcement on the bottom of the Grip. On the subject of structural reinforcements, this design revision was around the time we flanked the buttons with some fins, working in tandem with the heightened compression set and button relief slits, detailed above, to further guarantee that button actuation would have no impact on the overall durability of the Grip case. Pictured: Lack of button fins on the first-gen Grip. Pictured: Button fins on the newest-gen Grip. As an aside: Unrelated to the de-bonding issues, we've also made a number of smaller improvements to the Grip case with each new iteration. For instance, we chamfered the front lip of the case to make edge-swiping more pleasant and reduce dust accumulation along the rim. Those raised parallelogram shapes along the sides of your Grip case that create its distinctive handfeel? We made those way bigger for a better in-hand experience. In short: product development is a complex and multifaceted process. Each new iteration of the Grip case is better than the one that came before, and that applies to more than just failure rates. Speaking of failure rates: all of these improvements were in place by the time we launched iPhone 11-series Grip cases. The failure rate for these cases decreased exponentially... but didn't disappear entirely. The Even More Ridiculous Metaphor With these improvements, we achieved our desired outcome: the case was no longer deforming around the buttons or the charging port. Instead, the structure of the case began to fail literally anywhere else around the perimeter of the phone. Think of it this way… you’re a roof carpenter. The greatest roof carpenter of all time. Like the son of God, but if he was a carpenter. Unfortunately, you’ve been paired with the Donald Trump of wall-builders. You're tasked with building a house. You spend all of your time and energy perfecting your roofcraft. You've designed a roof that's so durable, it may as well have been made of Nokia 3310s. Nothing's getting through that bad boy. The wall guy? Instead of building that wall he said Mexico would pay for, he's been tweeting about the miraculous medicinal properties of bleach while a plague kills hundreds of thousands of Americans. The point here is that you can build the greatest roof of all time, but the walls need to be strong enough to match. To strengthen the Grip case's metaphorical walls, we needed to re-design the inside of the Grip case from scratch. More specifically, the mechanical interlock between the springy elastomer and rigid polycarbonate skeleton. We took every tooth at the bonding point between the two materials and made them as large as we possibly could. Then, we added more teeth. Pictured: Polycarbonate teeth on the newest-gen Grip. To jog your memory: this is how the teeth used to look... Pictured: Polycarbonate teeth on the first-gen Grip. If time proves that these changes aren’t enough, our engineers still have a number of ideas on how to improve the bond between the elastomer and polycarbonate. Will we ever need to implement those ideas? Again - that’s a question only time can answer. Each change might be the silver bullet that puts this problem to bed for good... but there's only one way to find out: it involves real-world testing and, with each iteration, months of careful observation. PART THREESo, Where Are We Now?Have the improvements we've made to the Grip case been successful? You bet. For the sake of comparison: we began shipping iPhone 11 series Grips on September 30th, 2019. Within six months of that date, we had received 52 reports of structural failures - a big improvement over the early days, but still not good enough. Fast forward two months. We began shipping Note 10 Plus Grip cases on November 21st, 2019. In the first six months of availability, we received exactly eight reports of Note 10 Plus Grips falling apart. Again, a major improvement over the iPhone series in the same stretch of time. If we'd launched the first Grip cases with a failure rate that low, we wouldn't be writing this post right now and you’d have nothing to read while pretending to do work. How about the Galaxy S20 series, which began shipping on February 10th, 2020? They're the most recent and improved set of SKUs we’ve made to date, leveraging everything we've learned and making further improvements over the Note 10 Plus. No reports so far. Same goes for the iPhone SE and OnePlus 8 series - these SKUs share all the improvements we've made to the underlying design of the Grip case thus far. Does that mean these numbers will hold forever? Who knows. That's the thing: every improvement we make, we need to wait several months to see how effective it's been. No amount of internal testing can replace the real-world data of shipping cases to hundreds of thousands of users across nearly 200 countries. We could always just throw in the towel, make the entire case out of rigid plastic, and call it a solved issue... but that would be the easy way out. The Grip case and its unique design properties can't reach their full potential unless we make incremental improvements - then wait and see how they pan out in the real world. All of which is to say: it's far too early to say the newest set of improvements have officially solved the problem. While the failure rate is still zero, we need to keep watching. We've made a ton of progress, but we're not going to rest until we've killed this issue for good - without sacrificing the unique properties that make the Grip case stand out in a sea of derivative hard plastic and TPU phone cases. That's probably enough to inspire confidence in someone who's on the fence about buying an S20 Ultra Grip, an iPhone SE Grip, or any Grip we release in the future. But what if you're one of the people who bought an older Grip model? "I'm One Of The People Who Bought An Older Grip Model!" We won't sugarcoat it. The failure rates for older Grip models is way higher than we deem acceptable. Why has it taken us this long to publicly address the issue, then? Easy: it's not as widespread as you might think. Some humans reading this might be looking at their iPhone X Grip, purchased in 2019 and still intact, wondering what all the fuss is about. That's an important consideration: most people who have functioning, still-bonded Grip cases aren't posting on /dbrand about how unbroken it is. The people who've had issues around total product failure are in the minority. We're not using the word "minority" as a get-out-of-jail-free card here. It's still a way larger number than we'd ever be comfortable with. We simply don't want our transparency and candor in writing this to be misinterpreted as an admission that every single Grip case we've made for older devices is going to fall apart. Statistically speaking, this is an issue for a minority of Grip owners. Our philosophy at first was that, while it was unfortunate and frustrating that Grip cases were falling apart, dramatic PR action wasn't necessary. Instead, we resolved to:
Where our strategy backfired was in the narrative that began to take root as Grip cases continued to fall apart. Look at it this way: the failure rate of older Grip case SKUs is anywhere between 1% and 20%, depending on how early we released the SKU. Since the improvements we've already made to the underlying design were rolled out incrementally with each new phone release, that number has been on a steady downward trend. For the purpose of this thought experiment, we'll go with the earliest, shittiest Grip cases - putting us at a long-term failure rate of 20%. So, 20% of customers for this device have a Grip case fall apart at some point in the product's lifespan. Every single one of those people writes in to our Customer Experience team about the issue. They all receive a replacement, free of charge. Since this replacement is identical to the first Grip case they'd received, it also has a 20% failure rate. We're now dealing with percentages of percentages. Stop panicking, we'll do the math for you: that means 4% of these hypothetical Grip owners will have a second Grip case fail on them in the long run. Four percent is a lot better than twenty… but it's also a lot of people who've been burned twice. These people are going to be extra vocal about how shitty the Grip case is. To be fair, they've got every right. So, we've got four groups of customers for this SKU:
Group B, having been burned before, reads about Group A's experience. They take it to mean their replacement will inevitably fail on them as well, and they'll one day get the dubious honor of joining Group A. Group C, despite not having had any issues yet, reads the experiences of Groups A and B. Then, a significant portion of this group begins to operate under the assumption that it's only a matter of time before their Grip falls apart as well. Group D reads all of the above and decides they don't have enough confidence in the Grip case to ever purchase one. A narrative begins to form that this hypothetical failure rate is close to 100%. Worse yet: people with newer phones, unaware that each new iteration of the Grip case has a dramatically reduced failure rate over the last, start to assume their case also has a 100% failure rate. That's where our original strategy - the one where we quietly improved the product in the background while offering replacements for defective units - backfired on us. This narrative only exists because we've continued to leverage existing stock with too high a failure rate, which, in hindsight, was like pouring gasoline on a gender reveal forest fire of disappointment and regret. This brings us to our next chapter. Mass Destruction At this point, you're probably aware that a number of Grip SKUs for older phones have been listed as "Sold Out" on our website, and haven't been restocked since. We stopped production on these cases because we knew they'd have all the same issues as the original production runs. See, it's not as simple as pushing a "make the Grip not fall apart" button at the factory - we'd need to redesign the case from scratch, implementing all of the design improvements we've made up to this point, then re-tool our existing machinery to produce this new version. We'll have more to say about re-tooling a bit later - for now, focus on the fact that some Grips have been listed as "Sold Out". If someone's Grip case falls apart while listed as "Sold Out", we don't have any replacements to send them. Instead, dbrand's Customer Experience team has been issuing refunds wherever possible, and store credit otherwise. Just in case you're wondering what we mean by "where possible": PayPal doesn't allow refunds on transactions that are more than six months old. Store credit, on the other hand, can be offered indefinitely. What we've come to realize is that we're never going to be able to escape this downward spiral until we rip the band-aid off and stop stocking these old, flawed SKUs. Today, we're ripping the bandaid off. As you're reading this, we're disposing of all of our old stock. All of the flawed Grip SKUs are now listed as "Sold Out". Head over to our Grip listing and take a look at what's available. Everything that you can currently buy is up to spec with the improvements we've made over the past year - meeting or exceeding the standard of quality set by the Galaxy S20 series, the iPhone SE, and the OnePlus 8 series. In some cases - take, for instance, the iPhone 11 series - this means we've already re-tooled our production lines to meet that quality benchmark. If a Grip case is listed on "Backorder", it means we've begun the process of re-tooling the SKU to match the improved quality standard you've spent the last five hours reading about. However, if a Grip case is now listed as "Sold Out", that means no more reshipments. If you own a sold out Grip case that hasn't fallen apart yet: that's great! Don't assume that your Grip is doomed to fail just because we devoted 5661 words to explaining why it might fall apart. You've still got better odds than you would at a casino. As always, if you run into any issues with your case, sold out or not, shoot an email to one of our Robots. They'll still take care of you - it just won't be with a replacement case… for now. Mass Production Remember when we said we'd talk more about re-tooling a bit later? That's right now. So, why are so many Grip models not being fixed? Why haven't we re-tooled these old SKUs with all of the quality improvements made to the case's build quality? It's a little complicated. Taking the improvements we've made to the most recent suite of Grip models and retroactively applying those changes to older SKUs isn't a simple task - it would require us to throw out our existing production tools and create new ones, from scratch. Suffice it to say that doing so is a wildly expensive endeavor. To recoup that cost, we'd need to produce more Grips than we're likely to ever sell for aging, irrelevant hardware. Let's use the Pixel 3 as an example. If we replaced every single de-bonded Pixel 3 Grip, that would account for about 3% of the MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) on a re-tooled Pixel 3 Grip case. Now we're sitting on 97% of that MOQ as overstock. Pixel 3 owners have had their phone for nearly two years now. If they want a phone case, they already have one. They're not looking for new Pixel 3 cases, they're getting ready to buy a new phone. Simply put, it’s no longer a viable market. Now, say the Pixel 3 was a significantly more popular phone - enough that we'd be shipping out, say, 50% of the MOQ as replacements on day one. Now, that's a lot more tempting to us - we'd still lose boatloads of money, but at least it would go towards some consumer goodwill. To figure out how much money we'd lose on re-tooling, we gave our bean-counting Robots a giant jar of beans and told them to get to work. They emerged three days later. When asked how many beans were in the jar, they gave us a blank stare. When asked if it was possible to re-tool any of our production lines for old Grip SKUs without losing obscene amounts of money, they said: "Absolutely not." Still, we're no strangers to throwing away obscene amounts of money to make the internet happy. Remember Amazon gift cards? Those were the days. The only question that remains is "How much money are we willing to set on fire?" We can't tell you yet. Why? Because we're currently running a detailed cost-benefit analysis on the subject of re-tooling old production lines, on a SKU-by-SKU basis. That's business talk for "the bean-counting Robots have been given more beans to count." The objective is to determine the viability of producing new-and-improved Grip stock for older phones: how many units would be tied up in replacements for that model, how many we could reasonably expect to sell to new customers, and how much overstock would be left from the MOQ. From there, we can determine what the financial impact of re-tooling would be and make the final decision on how much cash we're dumping into the ocean somewhere off the coast of the Seychelles. We'll have our results by early next week. These re-tooled models, if produced, would feature every improvement we’ve made thus far to the Grip case line, plus a few that have yet to be released. Remember how the S20s, the iPhone SE and the OnePlus 8s haven't had any reported failures yet? Picture that, but for the phone you've got. If we go ahead with re-tooling production lines for your phone, a few things will happen:
Take Our Survey This is it: your chance to have some say in how much money we set on fire as a goodwill exercise for this whole R&D clusterfuck. Those simulations we're running? They'll be great for telling us how much money we're going to lose on each Grip SKU, but it won't tell us anything about how much money our customers want us to lose on each Grip SKU. To that end, we've prepared a survey for people who have purchased a Grip case. We'll be taking your feedback into consideration during our decision-making process. We have only one request: don't be a jackass. Answer the questions honestly. Click here to take the survey. In Closing... We're sharing a special moment right now. We're all seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. For us, that light is "we're almost done with a year-long R&D effort to stop the Grip case from falling apart." For you, the light is "the end of a 5661-word marathon of a Reddit post." We just want to take a minute to recognize that we couldn't have gotten this far without your collective support. At any point in the past year, we might have pulled the plug on the Grip project entirely if we'd reached a critical mass of negative sentiment from our customers. Instead, we've got an army of devotees who have no problem paying us for the privilege of being our guinea pigs. Product development isn't a one-and-done process. It's easy to forget, but our skins weren't always to the world-class, record-setting, Michael-Jordan-in-his-prime standard you expect from us today. If you happen to have an iPhone 4 skin lying around, apply it and let us know how it goes. You'll immediately appreciate how many process improvements we've made. We weren’t born as the greatest skin manufacturer in history. We got there through a process of methodical improvement. Each jump in quality was driven by a bottomless well of user feedback, sourced from millions upon millions of customers. That, and the competition was comically inept. It's the same story for the Grip case. Your continued support has enabled us to make huge strides in developing a product that's on the cusp of blowing everyone else out of the water. We're going to keep working until it gets there. TL;DR VERSIONPlease note that by reading this tl;dr, you’re missing out on several outlandish metaphors, including classics such as:
WHY DOES THE GRIP FALL APART?
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO FIX IT?
HOW ABOUT THE GRIPS YOU'VE ALREADY SOLD?
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Stone appeared on East 68th Street to find Cohn, just awakened, in his robe, sitting with one of his clients, Mob boss “Fat Tony” Salerno, of the Genovese crime family. “In front of [Roy] was a slab of cream cheese and three burnt slices of bacon,” Stone remembered. “He ate the cream cheese with his pointing finger. He listened to my pitch and said, ‘You need to see Donald Trump. I will get you in, but then you are on your own.’ ”Shortly after, Stone founded Black Manafort & Stone with Paul Manafort and Charlie Black and took on Donald Trump as their first client (3). Stone later introduced Trump to Manafort in 1988 at the Republican National Committee (4).
[Yelstin] was desperately in need of funds, and turned to men such as [Roman] Abramovich and Berezovsky, whom he invited to participate in the so-called "loans for shares" scheme in return for financial backing. (2)For Berezovsky and his protege, Abramovich, that was with Sibneft, which they acquired in 1995. In exchanged for being brought into the loans for shares program, Abramovich was forced to pay Berezovsky $1 billion across 6 years for “kryshna”, or mafia protection (3).
...Finkelstein worked with Stone and Manafort in Ukraine in or around 2005, 2006, for the same cast of bad guys.Finkelstein's longtime business associate and adviser to Netanyahu, George Birnbaum, would later reach out to Paul Manafort's deputy, Rick Gates, when Gates joined Trump's campaign, and presented a plan for a campaign of social media manipulation run by Israeli intelligence officers through Psy-Group, owned by Joel Zamel (25). Later Erik Prince would arrange for Joel Zamel to meet with George Nader and Don Jr. to discuss Zamel's proposal. Nader ultimately paid $2 million dollars for the work (26).
American Government officials acknowledged that embassy officials had told Mr. Lauder and other company officials about Mr. Rabinovich's conviction and his links to Grigory Loutchansky, a Russian whose company, Nordex, is suspected of having ties to criminal organizations.In 2003 the Lauder Institute teamed up with Russia Oligarch Michael Fridman and German Khan’s Alfabank to form the “Excellence in Foreign Investement in Russia” award, with Leonard Lauder and Richard Burt on the board (11). Richard Burt, working for Diligence, had previously worked as a lobbyist for Oleg Deripaska, Deripaska’s RusAl, and Gazprom, and was once implicated in a scam to steal information from an Alfabank competitor (12)(13). Diligence also happens to be owned by Deripaska's London-based business partner, Nathanial Rothschild (23). Burt, along with Paul Manfort and George Papadopoulos, edited Trump’s first speech on foreign policy, where Trump promised Russia a great deal (14).
Lauder had proposed running a back channel between the PA leader and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, but the initiative ultimately fizzled.
By all accounts, the unexpected break for Murdoch in the Russian ad market came in 2002 after the assassination of Vladimir Kanevsky, then the billboard king of Moscow. In February of that year, at an intersection near the Kremlin, a man in a black ski cap walked up to Kanevsky's car and pumped five rounds into his head and chest.Murdoch's Russia ventures have been investigated for bribery. This was all in the background when, in 1999, Rupert Murdoch married Wendi Deng whom he and the FBI suspect of being a spy (3).
Since their divorce, Murdoch has been telling anybody who would listen that Wendi is a Chinese spy--and had been throughout the marriage.In 2006, when Jared Kushner bought the Observer, Murdoch became his close mentor (4).
When Jared Kushner took over the New York Observer in mid-2006 (around the time he met Ivanka Trump, whom he would marry in 2009) he turned to Murdoch for counsel.Kushner then directed the Observer erase such stories, and more (4).
Jared and Ivanka were known to double-date with Murdoch and his ex-wife Wendi Deng, and even after Murdoch’s split with Deng, the two women and the two men remained close.
The erasures first occurred under the leadership of then-editor-in-chief Elizabeth Spiers, who told The Post she was unaware of the erasure but said Kushner previously requested over the phone she couch stories about media mogul Rupert Murdoch, his mentor.In 2007 Wendi Deng, introduced Ivanka Trump to the wife of Roman Abramovich, Dasha Zhukova (5). In 2010, Jared Kushner's brother, Joshua, invested in a joint venture founded by Zhukova and Deng, Arsty.net (6). Then in 2014 Zhukova invited Deng, Ivanka, and Kushner to Moscow where they partied with Abramovich, Viktor Vekselberg, Len Blavatnik, and Alfa-bank execs, including the son-in-law of Sergei Lavrov (7).
...one conservative watchdog group in the US went after McCain half a year ago for facilitating a fundraiser at the home of Nat Rothschild, the Deripaska associate at the center of the Osborne-Mandelson row. Foreign donations, even "in-kind" contributions such as assistance raising money, are prohibited under American election law.In 2018 Ron Lauder awarded the entire Rothschild family the Herzl Award (12).
Questions | Answers |
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Dose the crew have wild sex orgies below deck? | None that I knew, although I heard some funny stories. One time we got to NYC, and two (crew) guys were led off the ship in handcuffs. I guess they had made some porno in their cabin with a 17 year old girl who's parents were less than impressed. Statutory rape all around for them...not a good scene. |
But, as someone with my own cabin, who has no problem talking to girls...I did okay. Better than okay...not gonna lie. It was pretty awesome. Hard to have real relationships though... | |
Level any of them up to anal? | Relevant username upvote...no comment. |
Although, I do remember being in my cabin once with my roommate and we heard people banging away in the next room (walls are pretty thin, you hear everything), and we were like "wow...she's really screaming" | |
And then we remembered that the two guys in that room were gay. That was kind of an OMG moment. | |
Big Gay Frank...I could write a hell of a book about that guy, but I'd probably get sued. | |
Epic. Did you give him a high five? | No, we fucking hated that guy. We messed with his shit so much. It was actually pretty cruel. It wasn't because he way gay, just to be straight (see what I did there?), because there are more than enough gay guys on ships...but it was because he was an ASSHOLE. |
I remember one April Fools, we turned his toilet off from outside his cabin (from a lockbox in the hall) all day, and eventually he came out and complained about it...so we told him to go down and file a report. While he was doing that, we turned it back on so it worked when the guys came to fix it. They chewed him out, and left, and he went inside. We turned it off again. This happened more than twice. | |
We also once taped him to a pole in the theatre with carpet tape during drydock. We had these big rolls of plastic that we'd cover the carpets with, and we just held him against a pole, taped him up, and left him there. We got in shit for that. We also got in shit for taping his door shut from the outside so he was trapped in his cabin. | |
But the best Big Gay Frank story was one that took weeks to plan. We thought it up one night drunk in the crew bar. The second day every cruise we hold a "Captain's Welcome Aboard Cocktail" party for everyone, and I recorded what the bridge camera sees during that time that day. The next week, the night before we did it again, I put in the tape from the week before (during the afternoon, 12 hours off). It was like 5am, but we had footage from 5pm the week before. We called him, and convinced him he had slept all day, and was missing Captain's Cocktail. He told us we were full of shit, so we said "check the damn bridge channel if you don't believe us". He did. He freaked out, jumped into his suit and ran out the door. We were all waiting outside...drunk as fuck. That was awesome. | |
We also turned off his alarm clock (cut power to his room) a lot. He got in shit...but he was just a prick to everyone, so we justified it that way. | |
I upvoted this halfway through, knowing it was just going to continue to be awesome. | We were so mean to that guy. |
What was the craziest thing you did on the ship and got away with? | Fell in love with a guest. We met on a cruise. She had just gotten out of college, and was celebrating, and we hit it off immediately. We were so inseperable that I actually brought back with me on a later cruise because she fell in love with me...and then she cried the whole day when that was over (the last day we ever saw each other). |
We both knew it was against the rules, but we didn't even try to hide it. I remember sitting in the theatre one night the first week with her watching a show, and we were really cozy. One of my friends came by and was like "you're not even trying to hide it...are you trying to get fired?". | |
If it happened, I wouldn't have been sad about it. It was amazing. She was amazing. | |
And it never happened (me getting fired). They were so cool about it that they actually allowed me to bring her back on as a guest a month later. We still talk. She's married, and super happy...and I'm super happy for her, but I think it might have been the most romantic two weeks in both of our lives. Just wasn't meant to be...too much distance. | |
That was the craziest two weeks of my cruising life for sure. Bermuda cruises are probably the best party cruises for the crews, because you actually get overnights in ports. | |
Wow. Cool story. Thanks for sharing. | Yeah...no worries. That was a great two weeks. Sometimes that's all you get. I'm not sad because it's over...just glad that it happened. I have photos (even the cheesy onboard ones of us in our suits/dresses). |
Would have been a cooler story if it ended like Titanic. | With credits? |
Yay you did one! One question, how much of the boat is never seen by patrons? I assume it takes an army to run ships of thy size. | Lots of crew spaces onboard, and most crew only see upstairs when they're working, so we need lots of space downstairs for everyone. Usually the ships have anywhere from 700-1500 crew on them...depending on size. |
Unrelated question, what is the length and diameter of your penis? | Speaking of unrelated size...um...hmm. RAMPART! |
What do all these people do on their downtime (if there even is any) Do you get to hang out on the boat? | I imagine you're talking about crew. The crew do a lot of working out, watching movies, drinking, hanging out in the crew badayroom, etc. |
I was lucky, I had a good position, so I was allowed in guest areas when I wasn't working...so I used to go check out the shows, eat in the dining rooms, go to the lounges, sit up on the deck looking at stars (never seen stars like that...nothing can prepare you for how many stars there are at sea, until you're out there...wow), and lots of stuff. I really enjoyed it, but we all worked really hard. I averaged 90 hours a week. | |
How many possibilities are there for crew to go above deck, or are you mainly cooped up in hallways / rooms while you're there? Do you get your own cabins? | Some crew members get their own cabins, and those are the same ones who are allowed upstairs. Usually crew share, and they're only allowed up when they're working. |
That actually sounds really damn cool. But holy shit! 90 hours? Do you get paid by the hour or one fixed rate. | Fixed rate. I worked it out one month, and I was working for $8.50/hr. We worked like dogs, but we played like animals. |
Dogs are animals. Checkmate. | Then we partied like dogs that like to party. |
It's only fun if you get free beer and daiquiris And by extension, it's all gun and games until someone gets AIDS. | Crew welfare had to throw one party a month, with free alcohol. They were awesome parties. I used to DJ some of them, and wow...sweaty. |
Christmas Eve 2009 was pretty sweet. I was working in Brazil doing a fill in (couple of months), and had just been dumped by my girlfriend at home (over the phone after 4 years...sucked). I was dj-ing in the crew bar that night, and it went until 4am, and then it went back to my place until me and a girl from brazil and a girl from england kicked everyone out of my room. karma is beautiful. | |
And nobody got aids. | |
How did you become a cruise-ship employee? What is the term of service like for that kind of employment? | I answered an ad in the weekly newspaper and had an interview with a hiring agent. It wasn't that hard to get work...I had already had a lot of experience, so it wasn't a stretch. |
Usually for people like me the contracts are either 6 months on / 6 weeks off (unpaid), or 4 months on / 2 months off (paid). It all depends on the company. Crew usually work anywhere from 6-9 months, and officers usually work 10 weeks on / 10 weeks off (paid). | |
What's it take to become an officer? | Not a lot...some navigation/safety courses, and then you start out as a second officer. |
Ohh so many questions..! It seems you've worked onboard SP and MJ - which ship is your favorite and why? Favorite port / itinerary and why? Did you get to interact with the guests much? How did the entertainment-crew like yourself go along with the rest of the crew, say engine and hotel? Assuming you had your own company email-address as a productions manager? If yes, on avarage how many emails did you receive each day? :) What happens onboard stays onboard? Is partnering with other crew-members common? | SP and MJ...do you work for Royal Caribbean? |
What are the hours like for most people working on a cruise ship? I can't imagine the standard 9-5 Monday-Friday would fit the average employee. What is the hierarchy like aboard the ship for employees? How much control does the captain really have? | I worked 10 hours a day, minimum, everyday for 6 months. Usually worked out to about 90 hrs a week. It's a crushing workload, but after ships...everything else seems easy. My job now feels like a holiday. It's a class system onboard ships. Crew at the bottom, hotel staff next, and then officers at the top. It's totally messed up, because the officers are usually the least trained people onboard, and have no transferrable job skills on land...but somehow they're gods on ships. Many hotel staff have more formal training for their jobs, but no respect from the officers...and I'd rather have a crew member save my life in an emergency than an officer. |
officers are usually the least trained people on-board? What about the training they get all those years at school? | It's more like months, and then they work their way up onboard. They do basic training and certification, and then start as second officers. Most of what they learn is onboard. I had more formal schooling than all of the Captains I worked with. |
Did you ever get to enjoy any of the places the ship went? After the 6 months of work, you had 6 weeks unpaid off, correct? Did you go home? What did you do in those 6 weeks? | I was lucky...I was usually first off the ship, and last on the ship. I saw EVERYTHING. I can't believe how lucky I got...I'm glad I took photos. I have 20,000 photos that I'll love looking at on my deathbed ;) |
I usually went home for vacations. I tried to do as little as possible. Slept in, was lazy, didn't answer my phone, took a time out. Ship life is hard...I needed the break. | |
I did go to Montreal once on vacation to hang out with a girl I met...that was cool. | |
Formal schooling has very little relevance to seamanship. | They have almost the same training we do. i find it interesting that in most sea disasters, it's never the officers who help...it's usually the crew/staff. the officers are usually nowhere to be seen. |
"but somehow they're gods on ships." | Just because you're trained to read a chart, or use a navigation computer, doesn't mean you're a god...by any stretch. |
Because they are trained to run the ships. You're not. | I could do any job on the bridge, with less than a year's training. |
SP and MJ...do you work for Royal Caribbean? | Favorite Royal Caribbean ship was the RD. Spent 2 whole years of my life on that ship. |
Favorite port was usually Vancouver, because I could go home. But, as far as places that weren't home...wow...that's a tough one. I'll think about it on my way home from work and let you know later. | |
I was paid to be around guests...I was really lucky. I met some amazing people running around with my camera. I had a great job and lots of days where I was like "I can't believe I'm getting paid for this". | |
Usually the entertainment dep't got along really well...we were all outgoing, and partied pretty hard, so we knew everyone. People used to hate on the singers/dancers because they hardly worked, but they always forgot how many years it took them to get to that position, and the extra month they spend rehearsing before they even get on the ships. | |
I had an email...got tons. Not sure if there was an average, but it was a lot. A lot more than I get now. | |
Since crew can't hook up with guests, yeah, we all hooked up with each other. I dated a lot of other crew members, and even tried to start a life with one once we decided we wanted to go back to life on land. Didn't work out though...hard to maintain a normal life when your first date was the Great Wall Of China. We kind of fizzled...ship relationships are hard to maintain, because they're so good when they start. It's hard to top the Great Wall when you work 9-5 at a normal job. | |
Thanks so much for your answers! I'm so excited to hear your version, almost all is pretty much identical with the stories I've heard from crew working for other cruise liners, even down to relationship with other crew members :-) The girls in the entertainment dept are hot commodity in the other departments onboard, as I've heard.. :-) I didn't notice any footage from the RD? And yes, I've heard she's a nice ship.. Btw, I work in freight forwarding, I move orders from rccl's suppliers to the ships, so I regularly email with miami and various crew onboard the ships. I know there's a lot of emails in that company.. Always fun to see the chief engineer desperate for a bolt and gasket while hotel need their wine and entertainment need their costumes and lighting, all yesterday.. Last question - did you attend any drydocks? If yes, I assume your task was to document it all? Thanks again! | Cruise ships are a big operation, that's for sure. It blew me away once I started to see what really goes into (and off of) those ships in each port. I remember a line of gas trucks in Ushuaia (Argentina) that lasted all day once. I couldn't believe we could hold that much gas. Truck after truck, after truck, after truck. From when we got there, until we left. I made this video with my own gear again, in my cabin while I was onboard. Didn't have space on the video gear upstairs, so after the drydock I put it together in my cabin whenever I had time. Sorry about the voiceover quality, it was a cheap mic, in a loud room (my cabin), on a ship. You can't get away from noise on a ship. Drydocks...intense. Other than a newbuild, it doesn't get any rawer than that on cruise ships. Those were pretty memorable experiences...almost more memorable than any experiences with guests. |
What kind of personal time were you given to explore the places that the cruise visited? | I had lots of personal time. For me, I worked when the ship was at sea. When the ship was docked, as long as the TV channels were running and the satellite dishes were tracking, I could go off and explore. I did everything I could. I knew it was my once-in-a-lifetime chance, and I went for it. Usually I was the first person off, last person on...and I tried to get as far from the ship as I could. Went to the pyramids, on safari, diving, rented jeeps and cars, stayed in resorts, stayed up all night partying (all over the world). |
It was awesome. I'm so glad I did it. | |
What advice do you have for people who want to leave the little port "bubble" that the ships usually take you to? I did this in Cozumel and found a dive bar with cheap local beer and homemade guacamole. | The only problem with that, is if something happens...nobody is going to wait. We used to leave people behind in Cozumel every week, because they wouldn't make it back to the ship in time. If you're on a ship tour, the ship waits...if not, you're on your own. |
I'd love to do it again, but I'm a little intimidated because I have no idea what is beyond the port or how safe things are beyond the bubble. Any recommendations in general about doing this, or specific to Belize would be great. | Not sure about Belize...never been. |
Thanks for the reply, and thanks for doing this AMA. Your responses have been top notch! | I've got a stomach flu...haha. |
For people who plan on going onto a cruise in the near future, what are a few things you think we should know before booking one? Such as stay away from this or do that etc etc... | Go on the tours, meet as many people as you can onboard, try to get cabins away from the public spaces/lifeboats, and realize that the longer the cruise...the older the clientele. |
Also...don't forget to tip people...a lot of times, that's most of their wages. | |
What happens to criminals on the ships? If I murdered a passenger would I be put in the brig? Did they even have a brig? Would I be arrested at the next place the ship docked? | We have security onboard. Yes, yes and yes. It's happened...a few times. Not while I was onboard, but I've heard stories. |
I heard this story from one ship that a guy killed his wife in his room, threw her off the balcony and didn't throw hard enough...she landed on the boat deck, right outside of the dining room while people were eating dinner. They went up to the room, and the whole place was covered in blood. Craazy. | |
If the ship is say, in Norway, would they be charged/arrested by Norway's laws? | They're usually ushered out of the country and then dealt with at home (or in the US), if it's something that happened on the ship. Local laws don't really have anything to do with crime onboard. But, if it's off the ship, then they deal with local laws. |
Do you get to eat the food that cruise ship guests get to eat or do they give you something completely different? | Both. |
I was able to eat in the guest dining rooms (if I signed up to eat in there and paid tips), and I was able to eat in the speciality restaurants (discount). Most crew can, but most crew don't. There's an unspoken rule on ships that crew don't eat in guest areas, even when they're allowed. It sucks that it's that way...they're usually allowed (if they sign up and pay) but it's frowned on when it happens...so it never happens. | |
The crew food is actually pretty good. In some cases better. It's realy international, and it's healthier. We don't waste as much, and we don't have the fatty sweet stuff they have upstairs. | |
You could always tell when we got hard ice cream in the mess that a lot of people had died that cruise, because they used our cold storage for bodies when the morgue was full. Happened a few times...always on Panama Canal cruises. Creepy, but true. | |
What...the actual fuck... | I know, eh? |
Not sure if kidding... | Not kidding at all. No joke. I know it sounds hard to believe, but yeah...Panama Canal cruises are killers. People go there because it's a "bucket list" thing, and the demographics on that cruise are way older than almost any other cruise. It's a big deal for old people. |
People always end up spending too much time outside on canal day, and people always die. We try to go around and keep people hydrated and out of the sun, but if they're on their balcony...not much we can do. We don't know until they're gone. | |
You could always tell when we got hard ice cream in the mess that a lot of people had died that cruise, because they used our cold storage for bodies when the morgue was full. Happened a few times...always on Panama Canal cruises. Creepy, but true. | Yep. And someone always dies canal day. Always. My first week onboard ships, I was sitting in the crew bar with the trumpet player in the orchestra, and he was "i'll bet you $5 someone dies canal day". I was like "fuck, are you kidding? that's sick...i'm not betting you". Sure enough someone died. I think 3 people died that day. People always die on Panama Canal cruises...they actually go on the cruise to die. I can't remember a Costa Rica port day, or a Curacao port day (either side of the canal) that we weren't met at the pier with a hearse. |
Wat. | |
What was the highest mortality rate for any one cruise? Are there seriously fully functioning morgues on these cruises?That can perform autopsy and everything? | No, they just store people. they don't get into that. i'd say 5 people on a panama cruise once. that was a bad week. other than that, there was one or two a few times. it was fairly regular...they are big communities. shit happens. |
I remember on one Panama cruise, someone died in the gym bench pressing. The captain got called and showed up and said "that's why i don't work out". Haha...awesome. Probably not the smartest thing to say, but he didn't care. | I'm just bummed I never got to play "Panama" on the ship's PA when we were going through the canal. I played it on the pool deck once, and that was fun...but I wanted to blast it everywhere. |
Moving a ship that big between the oceans requires a human's lifeforce to make the trip successfully or what? | We used to joke that we ran the ship of the power of masturbation, and the broken dreams of third world children. people on ships are pretty dark and jaded. ;) |
Why Panama? Yellow Fever, malaria? | No...it's old people, and exposure/dehydration usually. or just old people and natural causes. it's a bucket list cruise. |
One thing that always puzzled me is how cheap these cruises are. So my guess is they make money off of casinos, drinks and food? | Yep...you nailed it. Casinos, drinks, food, tours, and shopping programs all equal $$$. People spend as much on the ship as they do on their cruise ticket usually. One ship I worked on did $1mil/week in the Casino. |
Thanks for the confirmation :) Which cruise lines do you recommend for first timers if you can pick any one of them and time/location is not a factor and on a typical/average budget? | How old are you and what do you like doing? That matters a lot. |
Well.. crap.. | I don't know what you do for work, so I don't know. It all depends on what you do. There are lots of different jobs on ships. If you're a graphic designer, then I'd say it's not a great job, but if you're a Frank Sinatra impersonator, then it's a great job. Every country has hiring agents, and the big lines have websites that you can apply to, but I think they still use agents for interviews, so it's better just to find out who they are and go straight to them. As far as an interesting thing to do to find out about the world...hell ya. If you're young and you have nothing tying you down...it's awesome. Better than any backpacking I've ever done (and I've done lots). You get paid to freaking travel, and hang out with cool young people who have enough personality to leave home and explore the world. You might meet people in high school, and you might think they're your friends, but the people you meet on ships...they're forever. The best people I've ever met worked on ships. |
Oh and, I was thinking of doing some work on a cruise ship after (danish) college, can you recommend this line of work? | |
How about 25 years old. Live in the US. I like all sorts of adventure sports. Cost isn't necessarily an issue. I don't want to waste money though. | Sports staff would be cool. Work on the flowriders on the big ships. I know a couple guys from Brazil that installed a few of them. Fun job. You work on the rock climbing wall, the sports deck, and the waterpark. Some other bs mixed in there during down time to get your 10 hrs a day, but it's one of the more-fun jobs for sure. One of my good friends did that, and we used to take the rock climbing gear off the ship with us in Alaska and go rock climbing on our own. So.Much.Fun. I skateboard/surf, but haven't been on a ship with a flowrider...when i take a cruise, i'll do one of those ships for sure...just for that. |
A couple of questions, 1) What kind of work did you do on the ship? | 1 - I started as Stage Staff (theatre flunkie), and then got promoted to Sound & Light Tech. After that, I was promoted again to Video Tech, and then again to Head Video Tech. I did that for a few years, changed companies and worked as the Stage/Broadcast Manager on a ship. I worked there for a year, and then took a break from ships. In 2009, I went back to the first company as a Head Video Tech again and worked for a year. I'm off ships now...boring! |
2)Do people ever fall off of the boats? | 2 - Only Oscar falls off the ship. Nobody falls out of the boats. You only get into the boats when the ship is sinking though ;) |
3) Also is the music in your video from a Grand Turismo game? | 3 - No, the music is from a great band from the 90s called Slide Five. Wish they were still around...they were really great. |
Going from doing sound to doing video is not a promotion! | It is if that's what you went to school for, and want to do with your life. |
Also, how expensive are the crew bars? Is it expensive as shit like it is for guests, or are the prices more "normal"? | $1.25 for a beer $2 for mixed drinks/wine...last time I was on a ship. Might have gone up a bit by now. |
What do you do now that you are off of the ship? | High-end corporate A/V. Basically, I'm a professional mover. If you need someone to move your whole living room into a cube van and then set it up somewhere, and then put it all back in the van, and bring it back to you...then I'm your guy. That was a nice thing about working A/V on ships...everything stays in one place, and doesn't move. So nice to work a night, and then not have to pack everything up. I could set a band up, and leave them setup for 6 months. If you've ever done sound, you know how nice that must sound, eh? |
I have. Did some pyro work, so I know how much of a PITA loading up road cases can be. Know any info on the IT for the ship? Do they manage every aspect of IT (POS, terminals, network, communication, etc...) or do they just manage the intranet? | They manage it all...IT really is a good job. |
Where would you recommend someone go to relax and enjoy the warmth? | I like brazil, hawaii, thailand, eastern caribbean...those are all great. |
Have you ever been to grand turk? I was just there with my family a couple days ago and it was beautiful. No one tried to sell you anything either like the other ports we went to. | No...always wanted to go there. I'm Canadian, so I really want to see it. I think at some point we were going to help them out and it was going to become part of Canada (but it never happened)...and I've been curious about it since then. Flew over it once...looked nice. |
The eastern Caribbean is beautiful...all of it. | |
People try to sell you stuff in every port...but some are better than others. | |
So eastern carribean is not the same as the carribeans everyone hears about? | It's smaller scale, and not as intense. i think when most people think "caribbean", they're actually thinking Jamaica or Trinidad. |
What is the punishment for drugs on the ship? if youre caught smoking marijuana for example, will they hand you ever to the cops once the cruise ends? | Yep, and then you're fucked. |
What was your favorite place traveling through, or rather 'cruising' through? | Just to cruise? Alaska...by far. There aren't cruises like that anywhere else in the world, except Norway and New Zealand...which are also pretty cool, but Alaska is something else. The Inside Passage is phenomenal, and a ship is the only way you can see it. |
As far as tropical destinations...Seychelles is heaven on Earth. | |
Seychelles is heaven on Earth. Sounds interesting, tell us more. | It's just amazing. Beautiful island, great people, isolated, clearest water I've ever swam in...it's just perfect. |
Anyone ever fall overboard? If so, what happens? Also, what are the captains like? are the cool or do they have God complexes? | Only Oscar falls overbord. |
American and Scandinavian captains are usually pretty cool, and Greek and Italian ones are usually not pretty cool. Exceptions to both rules. | |
They ALL have God complexes, and they all like really young women. I remember one captain brought his wife onboard, and we were all like "hey, you brought your granddaughter...that's cool!" Not cool. | |
What's the best way to sneak alcohol aboard? | From what i've seen working on ships, it's NOT in your carry-on luggage. Especially once the cruise starts. You're searched every time you get on the ship, and so much booze is confiscated, it's ridiculous. You get it back at the end of the cruise, but they catch so many people. |
Security is pretty tight, and these days they open everything. I've had all my bags ripped open so many times, that you know it's going to happen...so you can't just put a bottle in a bag. | |
The best way I've heard so far is to put it in a bag (in something not-so-obvious, and maybe not shaped like a bottle), and then in the most obvious place you can find in the bag (the place someone would see first when they open it), put a HUGE dildo right there. They'll see that, get embarrassed, close the bag, and you're good. Smile at him or her like you know where it's going tonight, and you're on your way. | |
Worked for a friend, but you never know...that takes dedication to pull off. | |
Maybe just get to know your cabin attendant, and persuade him to go buy some booze for you at the crew bar. Ya never know. | |
Did I just say that out loud? No...don't do that. | |
What are the best and most fun jobs on a cruise ship? How can one score 'deals' related to booking cruise ships? | I would say the best job on a ship is a feature entertainer, but as far as the "real" jobs on a ship...I'd say the bridge or hotel technical/admin jobs are the best, followed by the cruise staff/activities managecruise director path. They have a blast. |
If you have a university degree and are good with kids, Youth Staff is a GREAT job. Met some really cool Youth Staff on ships...they have fun. | |
Youth Activities Managers...sometimes not so fun. I remember my girlfriend on one ship was a YAM, and she came home one day...covered in food and asked me "you make the same amount I make, right?" I'm like "uh huh"...she's like "I hate you." | |
Deals on ships...check their websites for last minute deals. Those are the best deals on ships. | |
Which are the jobs that'd allow you access to the guest facilities and most contact with the guests? | Anything in the hotel/entertainment dep't. they have the most contact with the guests, and the most privileges in that sense. |
What are the worst jobs? | Bartenders, waitresses, cabin attendants, deck & engine crew (we call them blueboys)...those are shitty jobs. |
But again, they don't think of it that way. North Americans are spoiled people...we don't have as good an attitude about life as they do. They seem okay, and in their countries they're still making better money than they would at home (and a lot send most of their money home). | |
We piss it away on crap in ports, and complain about having to do tour loads in the morning. We suck. | |
Does for example, light/sound tech count as entertainment? Or does it only go as far as singers/dancers/comedians? | Light/sound is entertainment, and they have a lot of contact with guests. |
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